Rape? Or a justified response to provocation.
Today I want to address one of the most pernicious arguments of the pro-mass murder, pro-infanticide, so-called pro-choice (ie anti-life) brigade.
These whining liberal cohorts of the death doctors and Hillary Clinton voters like to pose what they call ‘moral conundrums’ and ‘rational questions’ to justify their crimes.
Let’s ignore the fact, for now, that there really is no such thing as a moral conundrum, since the answer to everything is laid out plain and simple, straight and clear in a book we Christians know as the Holy Bible. (Remember “Thou Shalt Not Kill?” How much more specific do you want it?!)
Let’s just take on the question they always throw in the face of those trying to save lives outside the death clinics:
“What if the woman who intends to murder her baby was a victim of rape?”
I’m sure every Christian has had to respond to that question at some time in their lives. So today, I want to provide a simple three point guide as to how to take on the atheist sicko who puts it to you:
Let’s address this question point by point, in three easy points:
I think that this last point merits further investigation. Women today are such slatterns and temptresses, who can really blame men for reading the signals wrong? Just look at this picture:
How is this justice?
And yet, outside of decent Christian communities every woman dresses like that. In Democrat areas that kind of filthy outfit is the most common one there is. And yet! As we all know, it’s Democrats who are always first to cry rape and the first to have their babies murdered.
Isn’t it disgusting?!
Shame on them!
Shame!
Yours In Christ,
Sam Johnston
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Thank you Wraith.
I have to say that your attitude has really improved recently. It must be a result of spending so much time with decent Christians.
Praise Jesus!
“Don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t you know what the fires of hell feel like?”
Noone knows that Sam, or are you implying you’ve already been there? Because that’d be the only way to know that..
Greetings from liberal Holland,
Thomas van der Meer
“Thank you Wraith.
I have to say that your attitude has really improved recently. It must be a result of spending so much time with decent Christians.
Praise Jesus!”
Uncyclopedia refers to comments 24 and 25 as sockpuppeteering. Really, Sammy, your cover’s been blown. You can set it up again, but we already know where you are.
…And if you really need a friend that much, you could always- no wait, read below.
?¢‚Ǩ?ìShelley is a very beautiful woman.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
Look out, Shelley! Sam’s got eyes for you!
?¢‚Ǩ?ìThe reason she doens?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t get so-called ?¢‚ǨÀúraped?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ is because she doesn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t dress like a whore and men know she is a good christian.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
Seriously… a woman is made ‘impure’ if she’s been raped? That’s how that statement comes across. It also comes across as fundamentalist Muslim thinking…
Hey, maybe Christians should adopt the Burqa!
“Uncyclopedia refers to comments 24 and 25 as sockpuppeteering. Really, Sammy, your cover?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s been blown. You can set it up again, but we already know where you are.”
LeftTurn, I am gravely hurt that you are calling me a sockpuppet. I swear to you, I am Wraith and I have finally seen the light. I hope you do too one day.
-Wraith
Ok, first of all. That so called infanticide you are talking about haven’t killed half as many people as those christian fighters. Thats what really makes me don’t like religion. It’s a really big shame to abort, but on the other hand, will the baby have a nice life if the mother aren’t ready at all, and/or maybe are way to poor to survive. Maybe she isn’t christian, and don’t prioritizes it..!
Many arguments for and against, but what the little republic raciest mentioned earlier, about all the hispanics and negros that rape because they get easier tempted are bullshit!
Its ok that you want to have your country “clean”, but have you ever considered that the majority of them actually are really poor and haven’t money for school.
Shame on you, God wouldn’t like it if he read your comment!
Sedgewick Hunsaker, say poor next time instead, so it doesn’t appear as you are an racist!
God be with you! He’ll probably forgive your sin once:)
Sam: Your Bible means as little to me, personally, as the Quran or the philosophy book I should be reading instead of arguing with you. Don’t you realize that you’re following a god that doesn’t care about you? All your god cares about is that you follow what he says to the letter. You follow a more oppressive dictator than the leader of any countries that you ridicule.
Wraith-impostor: Give it up, coward; you’re not fooling anyone. If you really wanted to make an impression, you’d come out from behind your mask and enter into an actual debate with the man you’re impersonating.
“Sedgewick Hunsaker, say poor next time instead, so it doesn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t appear as you are an racist!”
Don’t you think that’s insulting to poor people like myself? I have seen a lot of poor people who are still faithful to God and keep to his commandments. On the other hand, have you seen what thees Mexcans and Negros eat?
-Wraith
“Don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t you know what the fires of hell feel like?”
And you do, jerkoff?
“Does the word of God our creator, father and master, He who decides anything and everything, not mean anything now?”
Nope.
“Thank you Wraith.
I have to say that your attitude has really improved recently. It must be a result of spending so much time with decent Christians.
Praise Jesus!”
Sam your not fooling anyone. Get a life.
And now a little something courtesy of Slayer:
Mankind in his insatiable search for divine knowledge has discarded all biblical teachings. Realizing that the strength of religion is the repression of knowledge. All structures of religion have collapsed. Life prays for death. In the wake of the horror of these revelations, it was never imagined how graphic the reality that would be known as the end of creation would manifest itself. We believe all this chaos and atrocity can be traced back to one single event. We hold these truths to be painfully self-evident. All men are not created equal. Only the strong will prosper. Only the strong will conquer. Only in the Darkness of Christ have I realized God hates us all.
Orthodox Christians are you saying that the reason negros and mexcans do most of the raping is because they are really poor aint got no money for school? That is the craziest thing I ever heard since Hilary announced she was running for president of this great country. Everbody that knows me I aint no racist. You sound like you been smoking some of that wacky weed son. You need to start studying the Bible like the good folks that run this site and this good old Texas boy named Sedgewick Hunsaker. Praise Jesus!
I just found myself wondering whether “finding yourself dead” is the same as “waking up dead”. Both seems to imply some ghostly state of existence where you are alive (sleeping or not) and before you know it you’re floating around as a ghost going “Hey, what happened? Bummer, it looks like I’m dead!” I always preferred the phrase “to wake up dead” myself since I like to sleep a lot.
So do these statements mean that STR officially endorses ghosts? Can they be compared to biblical angels? Does it mean that books like (dare I mention it?) Harry Potter are not evil after all? Or is it just the ghosts part in ‘m that is not evil?
Thanks,
Matt
Only two things come from texas, steers and queers,
and you don’t look like a steer to me
“On the other hand, have you seen what thees Mexcans and Negros eat?”
“…the reason negros and mexcans do most of the raping is because they are really poor aint got no money for school?”
Uh-oh…I’m seeing some similar spelling in here. Sedgewick, next time you imposter someone like Wraith make sure you use the same quality of writing as he does. At least use spell check.
The correct spelling is as follows: Mexicans (there’s an “i” in there) and Negroes (that’s an extra “e”). If you’re going to insult people, please do it intelligently.
…..Thank you LeftTurn for pointing out my clone’s… “efforts” (if one could call them that)
“I am Wraith and I have finally seen the light.”
-What light? I do believe the Peanut Gallery *is* the light… we’re the ones speaking of tolerance and forgiveness, not fear and anger.
“Don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t you think that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s insulting to poor people like myself?”
-…I’ll spare you the list of expensive electronics around me, and in the room adjacent to me… I’ll leave it with; it’s very hard to build and upgrade computers for free and on the cheap… and my computer was built and upgraded personally.
“On the other hand, have you seen what thees Mexcans and Negros eat?”
-Why do I find myself continuously feeling like I should be apologizing for this asshole…
STR crew, or fellow commenter, whichever you’re afraid to reveal yourself as, you are fooling nobody. Man up and drop the guise… What faith have you where you’re afraid to let your ideas be known under your own name? What warrior of God fears that God will not protect them? Step up, drop the guise, and prove you have the courage to let your ideas be known without cloak and dagger… until you do you’ll be less than a true Wraith… you’ll simply be a ghost of STR’s behind-the-scenes puppetry.
-Wraith
Good observation Dude… I assumed it was merely the Wraithposter mimicking Sedgewick, thought didn’t even occur to me that it could be Sedgewick mimicking *me*.
“make sure you use the same quality of writing as he does.”
-Whether it was meant as a compliment or not it’s been taken as one ^^, thank you.
-Wraith
Just for the record Sedgewick (that is me) has NEVER impersonated ANYBODY here and never will. You all believe what you want though. It dont mean diddly to me.
Sedgewick Hunsaker
True Christian
Proud Republican
All I was saying is that there were some pretty glaring similarities. If you prefer not to sound like the Wraith imposter, it may be a good idea to brush up on your english skills. As an english major who does some proof reading in my spare time, I’d say some night classes would be a good thing.
Wraith: it was meant as a compliment. After all of the crap that gets written around here, somebody with actual writing skills is a pleasure to read.
Congradulations…you know who you are…
Also take note that the posts of the Imposter Wraith and Sedgewick(that is not me) are only a few minuits apart…Coincidence???
Oops with my spelling I think I just blew my cover! My apology to all!
…Ya know… the whole impostor thing would run a lot more smoothly if I didn’t frequently talk with, or have means of communicating with, most of the Peanut Gallerians… I know Britt’s not the offending party, and I know that’s not Britt. So you’re 0 for 2, gonna keep playin the game?
-Wraith
So now im being impostered too!
Geeze people, go away!(42)
Damn, I’m feeling a bit left out…what, am I not enough of a threat to be mimicked? Or is it that my mannerisms fluctuate too much to get an accurate read on how to mimic me?
You will get the special treatment too…just piss them off. :)
“You will get the special treatment too?¢‚Ǩ¬¶just piss them off. :)”
Hmm….
SHELLY YOU RIGHT WING FUCKNUT, I WILL CAVE YOUR WORTHLESS FUCKING HEAD IN! YOU PIECE OF HUMAN TRASH! DIE SHELLEY DIE! JESUS WAS A POOFTER! GOD IS A DIPSHIT AND HE SUCKED MY BALLS LAST NIGHT!
Heh… at this rate it’ll get tricky to keep track of who’s real and who’s a lame-tastic half-baked rip off.
Meh, at least it’ll make things interesting eh…
-Wraith
Random Aussie,
please relax. Why are you so hateful all of a sudden???
God don’t like it I can assure you!
These sluts on the picture deserve no better, that is the point I wanted to bring across.
Kind regards,
Shelley G.
Shelley,
God also doesn’t like it when you lie. Your site is called “The Freedom Blog”, yet you do not support freedon of expression. You, ma’am, are a hypocrite and a liar. The women in the picture have the same freedom to wear clothing of their choice that you have to write blogs on the topic of your choice.
“The women in the picture have the same freedom to wear clothing of their choice that you have to write blogs on the topic of your choice.”
As much as I disagree with STR, I have to say Shelley is in the right on this one. The First Amendment is guaranteed only as long as your “free expression” is not obscene.
That’s why Larry Flint has to print all those articles on those magazines even though no men read them. These women are expressing obscenity, and the Supreme Court made it clear that without some saving merit–and I don’t think seducing men is meritable–obscene expressions are not protected by the First Amendment.
-Wraith
hmmm…
I’m really not sure their clothing choice could be classified as “obscene”. And really, some of the blogs here are more off-putting than the fashion in the picture above.
Just to clarify, I’m not saying that all women should be scantily clad at all times, but if they choose to be in the appropriate place, their rights are protected.
I’m also not sure if this is actually wraith I’m talking to…could somebody help me out?
That’s my imposter Wraith-wannabe.
I’m still debating a permanent name change, but I’m not sure if that’ll actually help.
-Wraith
That Dude,
The question you need to ask yourself is this. Do you find yourself having lustful thoughts towards those women because of the way they are dressed? If so, whose fault is it?
Of course they are free to dress that way. Just as a chicken is free to cross a six-lane highway and hope that it doesn’t get run down.
I don’t know…I think it would be a shame to change your name just because someone else isn’t smart enough to remember who they are.
Maybe what I should do is post a copy of all my comments either on my blog, or somewhere I have the control. If you have any doubt, you can check that page and see if my comment is there as well.
I could be really l33t and just md5 the comments, like how they check the integrity of Linux packages–tried and true security. But then, you would have to be sure to md5 everything exactly as it is, including any whitespaces.
This is all getting very annoying and I’m just hoping that imposter will get tired.
-Wraith
Richard,
If I am not in control of myself enough to even control my thoughts: the most basic physiological function of my body, it is entirely my fault. The same is true if I cannot control my body. I have yet to hear convincing evidence that women’s clothing choice has anything to do with an assault. It certainly doesn’t in extremist Islamic countries where women are forced to wear bhurkas and the rape rate is still extremely high. If you are having lustful thoughts, I suggest you read Matthew 5:27-29. That should open up your eyes (or eye sockets).
Okay… every post since last night around 2pm (the ‘it’ll be hard to keep track’ post) made under my name were *not* me…
“These women are expressing obscenity”
-I disagree with, uh, “Wraithposter #1″ (the one that’s *blatantly* different)
“and I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t think seducing men is meritable”
-Actually I think it’s pathetic if you’re so easily seduced that you lose all control upon seeing a short skirt or halter top.
“I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m also not sure if this is actually wraith I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m talking to?¢‚Ǩ¬¶could somebody help me out?”
-For future confusion feel free to email me;
wraith.of.twilight{at}gmail.com
Or IM me (msn or yahoo)
wraith.of.twilight[at]hotmail.com
I’m always up for a chat and it really helps with my new Wraithposters to give actual heads-up… you haven’t been talking to Wraith since last night… these guys are getting slightly more annoying, though they did get *one* thing right… I debated a name change for a bit but it’s not gonna happen.
I’d rather choke on my own tongue than to type in all 1337… that’s for 14M3R5, and n00b5. As far as the ‘integrity of Linux’ I haven’t gotten a chance to check it out too much, though I plan to be running Compiz Fusion on my newly built computer later today.
I’m fully aware that there’s no way I can outright stop these would be Wraithposters, as they can change names to keep up with me, or post comments on my blog (and it would be a damn shame to have to turn on moderation on my blog)… Your best bet is to email me, or look me up on msn/yahoo.
Seriously Wraithposters, it’s pathetic,
-Wraith
Err… 2*am* not pm sorry… yet to have my morning coffee.
The stuff between comments 48 and 58 were *not* me.
48 and 58 *were* me.
-Wraith
Man…Dude … @ Wraith jr.
Fuck off it sooo clear that you are not the real Wraith. Grow up and do your own posts. Argue your point and try to convince us…don’t start doing stupid tricks!
COULD I FUCK SHELLEY?
YES,
BECAUSE ALL THE “RAPE” STUFF IS A LIE
?¢‚Ǩ?ìArmy sergeant used to say that if women are going to get raped they might as well just relax and enjoy it.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù Like in my hentai. Yeah!
IF I FUCK A NUN, IS NOT RAPE?
Sometimes, women try to provocate an specific man. If she don’t wanna sex from you, is RAPE, and is a horrible nightmare for all life. I can rape, because some people DON’T WANT SEX FROM ME.
And abort could be dangerous, but that is a different drama.
I WANT A CLONE TOO, LIKE WRAITH !!!
Hi, i’m the bad clon of Alzoph. I’m republican, god exist, we needs War on Terror and slave wifes. I hate gay marriage, niggers, ateism, democrats, islam, clown fucking, sexual sanity and the entire world. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
O_o
‘STR EPISODE 2; ATTACK OF THE CLONES’
-Wraith
Ooh, ooh, does this mean that Sam’s gonna get his face burnt off???
Oh man, I can’t wait.
Just thought I’d let everybody know… *now* I’m playing around with Ubuntu… and hopefully Compiz Fusion soon.
So far so good,
-Wraith
Just to flatter you.
No, i’m not xD fucking clon
Retarded republicans, 67 and above 69 aren’t me. I’m gonna to burn your flag and go to sleep. byes
???
Woooow???
“Why are you so hateful all of a sudden???”
Because I don’t fucking like you assface.
“God don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t like it I can assure you!”
I don’t give a shit, I’m atheist remember?
“These sluts on the picture deserve no better”
Wow, they dress like that, they must be sluts, get fucked shelley, or raped, whichever you prefer.
That Random Aussie again
Random Aussie/New Zealander,
if you really represent a typical atheist, you really changed what i think of atheists. so far, i thought of atheists as people, just like anyone else.
yeah, they are a minority in US and probably elsewhere, and i think that can work to justify some of their combativeness. but, watching you and many others here who sound as if they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior, i realize now that atheists are generally rude people who cannot maintain a civil, rational discussion. STR posters’ opinions my be stubborn and harsh, perhaps even borderline extreme, but they do not throw in the ample measure of curse words you utter with every sentence and maintain civility even in their harsh judgments. as someone who fundamentally believe the same thing as they do, i can honestly say that i am not a bit ashamed by their opinions expressed here.
sigh. i am just glad that now i know how rude atheists are generally. but for the grace of God who forgave my sins, i would have answered your rudeness in kind, but because my sins graver than verbal incivility has been forgiven not by my own work but as a gift to me, i also forgive you in my heart for everything you have said here.
Your sentiments are interesting TheBlind. I believe your heart is in the right place, and I *do* agree that STR can get a bit vulgar at times… that being said vulgarity is entirely dependent on interpretation. For example; If I say; ‘Aw, shit’ and I get corrected to ‘Aw, poo’ is it not saying the same thing?
The harshness of ‘curse words’ comes from their proposed extreme inflection -not quite the word I was searching for-, that is to say ‘shit’ conveys a strong emotion in a powerful way and *that* is what makes it a ‘curse’ or ‘swear’.
My point? Is it not the same for STR to be saying; ‘You’ll burn in the fires of Hell’ or ‘I’ll be laughing as you’re damned to the fires of hell’? They are strongly inflecting their feelings though they do it without using the typical ‘curse’ words. It is the meaning that people *should* find offensive, not the collection of letters, and when STR condemns others they do it with the hate filled meaning intact.
-Wraith
that reminds me of an interesting opinion i heard at my church many years ago. i overheard an elder, someone i really respected, telling a child not to use the “softer” forms of curse words, like “dang”, “heck”, and so on, as well as their original form. his justification was that if what you mean is the same, then which words you choose to utter makes little difference. of course, that’s not how he put it to the child… i think the more exact were something like, “no, you shouldn’t say that either because it means the same thing.”
it could just be my fragile ears and eyes that shudder every time a harsher forms of those words are uttered as i am not quite used to hearing them from anyone. but i suppose if those words are stripped of their meaning, like when they are used so often in those action movies that i don’t like to watch, where, i hear, they utter an f-word for every sentence at least, then perhaps it is o.k. to say those words. after all, it’s just a series of high pressure and low pressure regions in air.
on the other hand, it could be just me, but when Shelley says “you are going to hell” and when someone, atheist or not, says “f-you” … it sounds different to me. when shelley says that, it sounds to me like when Rev. Edwards preached “brimstone and fire” in the New York district. did he really mean for all those people to go to hell? no, he uttered those harsh words so that people might repent and turn to God. some people argue that he was just scaring people into believing and that that’s wrong … well, my feelings are a little conflicted on that, and i will just have to say that it’s an entirely different topic of conversation. however, when someone says “f-you”, i’m having a mighty hard time trying to imagine what positive thing he could mean by that. does he mean my life is messed up and somehow i should turn around 180 degrees? you have to admit it’s a little far-fetched.
on the whole, i agree with you it’s the intentions that matter most. i just think the intentions of christians, except for a few who would murder to get their way, are that everyone else should be saved like they are. while atheists, well the evangelistic atheists, at least, seem like they want everyone else to be damned because they are.
Perhaps by ‘f-you’ they’re meaning to say; ‘I’ve told you before that such threats have no meaning to me, that you continue to push them tells me that you have little care for the beliefs of others’
It’s all one big mess, but I think if Shelley and company weren’t as quick on the draw to condemn people to Hell you’d find fewer ‘curse’ words written. Again, it’s interpretation based, and because you, or I, might see it as trying to scare them into conversion (which I don’t believe in; belief through fear is not faith) they obviously see it as an attack.
So can you blame them for defending themselves on what they feel is the same level?
By the way it’s nice to have an intelligent discussion/debate on here, they’re few and far between.
-Wraith
that, again, reminds me of yet another question i read in last couple weeks: “is the mere existence of DRM harmful to the society?” a quick, nitpicking answer is that, “no, a method of DRM, invented and locked away in a closet, does not harm a society.” as much as it deliberately misinterprets the question, it does get to some truth. it’s not the mere existence of a possibly offensive item that is by itself harmful. it’s how it is used.
i would be quick to agree with you if Shelly had a captive audience here—say, she is a school teacher. then i would agree with you that she should be much gentler. i would not hesitate to say that she should be more subtle than “you are going to hell”. but, she does not have a captive audience here. just as people were free to attend Rev. Edwards’ revival meetings, or not to, so are everyone here. we are all adults here. or at least we are here because we think we can act like adults.
put yourself in Rev. Edwards’ shoes. how would it be like if some disagreeable person came to your revival meeting, and in the middle of, or even at the end of your sermon, he shouted out, “f-you a-hole! i don’t believe in God and i don’t care what you say!” you would feel … “why is he here?” if you are a true christian and a good shepherd, you might even feel, “i need to bring him to accept the Lord.”
that’s what i see here. i agree Shelley’s hard-line approach isn’t for everyone. some people get offended, sometimes beyond what seems reasonable, and some people, well, finally see what they couldn’t see for their whole life through her harsh words. if you are the people who tend to get offended, perhaps you shouldn’t be here. oh. i’m not telling anyone to go away. after all, i have no stakes here. i am in the audience just like you. what i am saying is, perhaps you should listen for a change and stop shouting. and if what Shelley says so offends you that it drives you away from God, perhaps you really shouldn’t be here. God will reach you some other way. he always does.
having said that, i do understand some people’s need to defend themselves intellectually. justify their position the way they see fit. after all, i am doing that now. the only difference between me and, say, Random Aussie is that i think i am standing with God, while Random Aussie thinks he’s standing against some lunatics. he wouldn’t be an atheist if he truly thought he was standing against God. however, rude words are hardly a defense. it’s like shoring up a bank higher and higher when it’s being eroded in the foundation. it’s like counter-attacking with nukes in order to “defend” oneself against a nuclear attack. i know, i’m being overly dramatic.
but what i am saying really goes back to the first impression i got after reading through all these comments here. when someone claiming to be atheist makes a proverbial scene and utter words that don’t quite seem to match the words spoken before he uttered those words, it reflects very badly on all atheists. as human beings.
“Random Aussie/New Zealander,
if you really represent a typical atheist, you really changed what i think of atheists. so far, i thought of atheists as people, just like anyone else.
yeah, they are a minority in US and probably elsewhere, and i think that can work to justify some of their combativeness. but, watching you and many others here who sound as if they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior, i realize now that atheists are generally rude people who cannot maintain a civil, rational discussion. STR posters?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ opinions my be stubborn and harsh, perhaps even borderline extreme, but they do not throw in the ample measure of curse words you utter with every sentence and maintain civility even in their harsh judgments. as someone who fundamentally believe the same thing as they do, i can honestly say that i am not a bit ashamed by their opinions expressed here.
sigh. i am just glad that now i know how rude atheists are generally. but for the grace of God who forgave my sins, i would have answered your rudeness in kind, but because my sins graver than verbal incivility has been forgiven not by my own work but as a gift to me, i also forgive you in my heart for everything you have said here.”
Ah, rude, irrational, ect. Maybe the reason why we are all that plus change is because generally the people that we direct our attacks (or counter-attacks depending on how you look at it) at don’t have enough brainpower to have a “rational, civilised conversation”. Why waste our energy typing big words and reasoning with fools like Shelley and company when they won’t even try to maintain a reasonable debate. So, to shorten it and get a similar point across, I simply make use of crude language, as seen above.
“he shouted out, ?¢‚Ǩ?ìf-you a-hole! i don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t believe in God and i don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t care what you say!?¢‚Ǩ¬ù you would feel ?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ ?¢‚Ǩ?ìwhy is he here??¢‚Ǩ¬ù if you are a true christian and a good shepherd, you might even feel, ?¢‚Ǩ?ìi need to bring him to accept the Lord.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù”
-But, in my experience, the argument is usually started by the STR crew, or the cursing is done jokingly.
I’ve yet to see Shelley’s approach turn anybody, only anger them.
“he wouldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t be an atheist if he truly thought he was standing against God”
-I believe atheism is not to stand *against* God, as, to an atheist, that is like saying you stand against the Sith, or the Borg. (Feel free to choose your preferred nerd reference ^^) You can’t truly say you stand against the Sith/Borg as you don’t believe they exist, and thus there’s nothing for you to stand against.
I agree that we all represent our various demographics around here, some of us more-so than others, I think it’s important for everybody to keep in mind that we are *all* individuals. Not only here, on this microcosm but as a whole, and it’s wrong to take an impression from one person and apply it to the whole. Shelley, and Company really get under my skin, but I don’t allow the to flow over into my relations with other Christians.
If you disagree with ol’ Aussie/New Zealander that’s your choice and your thing, but, as this is a public forum, your best bet is to question another persons motives, or logic, rather than their method. I apologize if I sound condescending in saying that as I don’t mean it as such. Simply that it’s my experience around here that your best bet is to look at the message not the words, and don’t allow any one person to represent a group in your mind.
We all fit various minorities, I’ll allow you to guess at mine, and it would be unfair to our comrades in stereotype to apply our traits to others.
I’ve enjoyed our discussion so far my friend, and I appreciate it,
-Wraith
So… Wraith has 2 dopplegangers now?
Yeah, there’s the one that says the opposite of me, and the one that actually kinda acts like me O_o
-Wraith
If a women is willing to kill a child she is evil and deserves to be raped.
That Dude said
“If I am not in control of myself enough to even control my thoughts: the most basic physiological function of my body, it is entirely my fault. The same is true if I cannot control my body. ”
So Dude, at what point would you concede that it’s the woman’s fault that you got aroused. If not when she dresses like a slut, what if she does a lap dance for you. Or if she ties you up and starts unzipping you flies. Or if she starts fellating you. Is it not her fault then?
Feminazis have bamboozled you into not understanding where the line should be drawn.
“So Dude, at what point would you concede that it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s the woman?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s fault that you got aroused. If not when she dresses like a slut, what if she does a lap dance for you. Or if she ties you up and starts unzipping you flies. Or if she starts fellating you. Is it not her fault then?
Feminazis have bamboozled you into not understanding where the line should be drawn.”
If she was doing that, it isn’t rape because obviously she’s looking for some action.
Random Aussie,
And you don’t think that a girl sends the message out that she is looking for action when she dresses as a whore?
My point is not that this makes it OK to rape the girl of course. But that girls should understand the message they send out, and that there is no coherent way to draw a line between dressing in a titillating and provocative manner and ‘looking for action’ as you so charmingly put it.
“And you don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t think that a girl sends the message out that she is looking for action when she dresses as a whore?”
No. You will find that wearing short skirts, belly shirts, ect, are fashionable today. That’s all it is, fashion.
“there is no coherent way to draw a line between dressing in a titillating and provocative manner and ?¢‚ǨÀúlooking for action?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ as you so charmingly put it.”
As I stated before, “dressing in a titillating and provocative manner” is fashionable, there is a major difference between whether a girl wants action and a fashion statement.
Rape is not enough, they deserve being tortured and then burned ! Burn the witches ! Burn the witches ! Burn them all ! They will pay ! Eradicate ! Exterminate ! Annihilate ! Republicanize them all ! Wait, forget my last sentence, that’s to cruel !
Random Aussie
“No. You will find that wearing short skirts, belly shirts, ect, are fashionable today. That?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s all it is, fashion.”
So you think something being fashionable makes it decent and acceptable? I hear that school massacres have become “fashionable”, no doubt you think that makes them OK too.
“As I stated before, ?¢‚Ǩ?ìdressing in a titillating and provocative manner?¢‚Ǩ¬ù is fashionable, there is a major difference between whether a girl wants action and a fashion statement.”
Personally I would suggest that the sherriffs of any god-fearing town should round up any girl dressed that way an keep her in the cells for her own protection. I think the fashion would soon pass then.
“So you think something being fashionable makes it decent and acceptable? ”
Not necessarily, but “decent and acceptable” is a point of view and depends on the situation.
“I hear that school massacres have become ?¢‚Ǩ?ìfashionable?¢‚Ǩ¬ù, no doubt you think that makes them OK too.”
Now that is sick.
“Personally I would suggest that the sherriffs of any god-fearing town should round up any girl dressed that way an keep her in the cells for her own protection.”
Wonder what the chances of that happening are? 0 seems likely.
“Now that is sick”
Sick to point out that our youths are completely lacking in moral leadership – which is one reason they regard it as OK to dress like whores.
We live in a society of extraordinary decadence, where children are bombarded with sexual imagery from a young age and as a result are losing the ability to make sensible judgments about sexual behaviour. And all you can do is excuse it as being “fashionable”?
Serena G, you said : “So you think something being fashionable makes it decent and acceptable? I hear that school massacres have become ?¢‚Ǩ?ìfashionable?¢‚Ǩ¬ù, no doubt you think that makes them OK too.”. Well, school massacres are not fashionable, but they are more than OK, they are GREAT ! These are the true symbol of the highest realisation of our western civilisation, we shall be proud of them !
Oxayotl,
Sorry but you’re going to hell. I’ll pray for you.
“I hear that school massacres have become ?¢‚Ǩ?ìfashionable?¢‚Ǩ¬ù, no doubt you think that makes them OK too.”
-That’s an invalid argument as it’s such an extreme it’s lost base with the original idea…
If a girl dresses provocatively it is *not* an invitation to do anything… it’s how she’s dressed. Your further examples of a lap dance, undoing one’s fly, or the act of fellatio are *all* sexual acts that *don’t* just occur on the streets.
How about me? How do I dress… some days it’s emo, some days it’s cowboy… does that mean I actively invite people to cut me? Am I declaring a desire to get into a duel? No… I just look good in leather jacket and cowboy hat. It’s the same thing. Surely if I’m dressed emo I’m sending out the message that I’m sad, lonely and cut myself. So why aren’t people dropping to their more base instincts, grabbing their knives and coming at me? Because it’s just the way I’m dressed, and you’d have to be *pretty screwed up to act on it*.
Same goes for provocative women, it’s just how they’re dressed. To take that as an invitation to rape them means you are *really* screwed up,
-Wraith
Serena : You say I’m going to hell, but, hey, how can you decide ? School massacre are the Sword of God to kill infidels ! That’s why they are SO cool, it is because they are God-made !
So it’s you who will end burning in the eternal flames of hell ! Repent while it is still time, and go do a school massacre !
I would concede at no point that it is a womans *fault*. My body is my responsibility, and what I do and allow to be done to it are also my responsibility.
“Sick to point out that our youths are completely lacking in moral leadership – which is one reason they regard it as OK to dress like whores.”
Moral leadership? A fashion scene is because of leadership? There aren’t too many guys walking around the streets wearing tuxedos the last time I checked, and again, the reason why girls “dress like whores” is because they look good like that, and as Wraith said: “you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d have to be pretty screwed up to act on it.”
Wraith “-That?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s an invalid argument as it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s such an extreme it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s lost base with the original idea?¢‚Ǩ¬¶”
No, it’s a deliberately extreme comparison to show that to argue that something it OK because it is fashionable is invalid.
If a girl dresses provocatively it is *not* an invitation to do anything?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s how she?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s dressed. Your further examples of a lap dance, undoing one?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s fly, or the act of fellatio are *all* sexual acts that *don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t* just occur on the streets.
I’m pointing out there is a slippery slope. Whores go out dressed like that for a reason, to draw attention to their bodies and to tout for business. Young girls now dress that way as a matter of course and it sends the same message.
“How about me? How do I dress?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ some days it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s emo, some days it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s cowboy?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ does that mean I actively invite people to cut me? ”
No, that just means you dress terribly.
Random ANZ “Moral leadership? A fashion scene is because of leadership?”
I’d say that is the definition of fashion, people taking their cue from others. Unfortunately in this case they are taking their leadership from degenerates.
“There aren?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t too many guys walking around the streets wearing tuxedos the last time I checked”
And how would that be similar to a girl dressing like a whore? The equivalent for a male would be to be in his underpants, wearing a badge that says “I’m yours’.
“..and as Wraith said: ?¢‚Ǩ?ìyou?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d have to be pretty screwed up to act on it.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
Of course, I don’t agree with Shelley that they deserve that, but we need to get beyond this idea that women are always in the right, and dressing like a slut is empowering rather than degrading. There are countries in the world where this kind of ‘fashion’ would be socially and legally unacceptable. Sadly our country has been overrun by degenerate ideas.
“I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d say that is the definition of fashion, people taking their cue from others.”
Courtesy of google’s definitions page:
fash?Ǭ?ion (f?sh’?n)
The prevailing style or custom, as in dress or behavior
“And how would that be similar to a girl dressing like a whore?”
It’s getting a point across, if fashion is due to leadership, then wouldn’t people be walking around dressing like politicians?
“I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t agree with Shelley that they deserve that, but we need to get beyond this idea that women are always in the right”
The idea that women are always in the right? Women do happen to end up in prison and the like, so there isn’t an idea that women are ALWAYS in the right.
“…dressing like a slut is empowering rather than degrading”
How about neither? That sounds good to me.
“There are countries in the world where this kind of ?¢‚ǨÀúfashion?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ would be socially and legally unacceptable.”
Due mostly to religious customs, besides, it is a persons right to dress however he/she likes.
“Sadly our country has been overrun by degenerate ideas.”
Like electing GWB as president…
“I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d say that is the definition of fashion, people taking their cue from others.”
Courtesy of google’s definitions page:
fash?Ǭ?ion (f?sh’?n)
The prevailing style or custom, as in dress or behavior
“And how would that be similar to a girl dressing like a whore?”
It’s getting a point across, if fashion is due to leadership, then wouldn’t people be walking around dressing like politicians?
“I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t agree with Shelley that they deserve that, but we need to get beyond this idea that women are always in the right”
The idea that women are always in the right? Women do happen to end up in prison and the like, so there isn’t an idea that women are ALWAYS in the right.
“…dressing like a slut is empowering rather than degrading”
How about neither? That sounds good to me.
“There are countries in the world where this kind of ?¢‚ǨÀúfashion?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ would be socially and legally unacceptable.”
Due mostly to religious customs, besides, it is a persons right to dress however he/she likes.
“Sadly our country has been overrun by degenerate ideas.”
Like electing GWB as president…
Oops, double post.
Random ANZ “Courtesy of google?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s definitions page:
fash?Ǭ?ion (f?sh?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢?n)
The prevailing style or custom, as in dress or behavior
Prevailing, as in following where others lead.
“It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s getting a point across, if fashion is due to leadership, then wouldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t people be walking around dressing like politicians?”
No, because that is not where they are taking their leadership from. They are taking it from degenerate musicians, actors and so so forth.
“The idea that women are always in the right? Women do happen to end up in prison and the like, so there isn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t an idea that women are ALWAYS in the right.”
No but feminism is partly for the blame that a strong woman will dress like a slut and ‘express her sexuality’
“Due mostly to religious customs, besides, it is a persons right to dress however he/she likes.”
No, due to a sense of propriety, religious or not.
“I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m pointing out there is a slippery slope.”
-But it’s *not*… it’s apples and oranges.
“No, that just means you dress terribly.”
-You know you say that… but you’d be amazed how many people come to me for fashion advice. I’m sorry you feel the need to judge people based on their clothing. On the flip side you’ve helped to prove my point… just because I dress emo doesn’t mean you think I *deserve* to be cut. So why doesn’t that apply to women?
“dressing like a slut is empowering rather than degrading.”
-I just always took it as; dressing fashionably for our culture and our society.
“No but feminism is partly for the blame that a strong woman will dress like a slut and ?¢‚ǨÀúexpress her sexuality?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢”
-Once again… so? It’s still not an invitation to rape her and it seems most people get that. What if we turn the clock back hundreds of years, back when it was still risque to show an ankle… by your logic, because everybody was dressed to the nines, precious few people ever got raped. Sadly that isn’t the case. The only thing modern revealing clothing has done is desensitized us as to what parts of the human body are considered sexy. A woman’s ankle has become just that… her ankle… big deal. Back a few hundred years *it* was a risque move on par flashing somebody.
My point, quite simply, is that rape happened back when women wore eight layers of dress fully covering their body as a norm, and sadly, rape still happens today. If somebody is screwed up enough to rape another than I have a hard time believing that clothing is such a huge factor. I know it gets blamed, but to me that’s the same as some kid shooting up a k-mart and blaming a video game. The video-game *isn’t* why the kid shot up the k-mart, it was just a quick and easy scapegoat that works.
We’re all guilty of it but;
“Straw Man (Fallacy Of Extension):
attacking an exaggerated or caricatured version of your opponent’s position.
For example, the claim that “evolution means a dog giving birth to a cat.”
Another example: “Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can’t understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that.”
On the Internet, it is common to exaggerate the opponent’s position so that a comparison can be made between the opponent and Hitler.”
An extreme exaggeration of the point is a fallacious argument. STR is guilty of a good many, though, as I said, so are we all.
-Wraith
Wraith
“But it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s *not*?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s apples and oranges.”
Perhaps I was guilty of going a step too far in that comparison. I’m trying to make you see how sexually provocative that style of flesh is though. No wonder visitors frmo foreign countries believe that all American women are sluts, when they dress in a fashion that only a whore would in many places.
“You know you say that?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ but you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d be amazed how many people come to me for fashion advice. I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m sorry you feel the need to judge people based on their clothing. ”
Just a joke. Typical emo liberal, no sense of humour…
“Once again?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ so? It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s still not an invitation to rape her and it seems most people get that. What if we turn the clock back hundreds of years, back when it was still risque to show an ankle?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ by your logic, because everybody was dressed to the nines, precious few people ever got raped. ”
That’s a misrepresentation of my logic – I didn’t say that was the only cause of rape, nor do I think slutty dressing means someone deserves such a terrible act. But do you really like it that our whole culture has become so utterly desensitised to porn and sexuality?
“The video-game *isn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t* why the kid shot up the k-mart, it was just a quick and easy scapegoat that works.”
No, that was because he was an godless, emo loser.
?¢‚Ǩ?ìI?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m pointing out there is a slippery slope.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
-But it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s *not*?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s apples and oranges.
?¢‚Ǩ?ìNo, that just means you dress terribly.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
-You know you say that?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ but you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d be amazed how many people come to me for fashion advice. I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m sorry you feel the need to judge people based on their clothing. On the flip side you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ve helped to prove my point?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ just because I dress emo doesn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t mean you think I *deserve* to be cut. So why doesn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t that apply to women?
?¢‚Ǩ?ìdressing like a slut is empowering rather than degrading.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
-I just always took it as; dressing fashionably for our culture and our society.
?¢‚Ǩ?ìNo but feminism is partly for the blame that a strong woman will dress like a slut and ?¢‚ǨÀúexpress her sexuality?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
-Once again?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ so? It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s still not an invitation to rape her and it seems most people get that. What if we turn the clock back hundreds of years, back when it was still risque to show an ankle?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ by your logic, because everybody was dressed to the nines, precious few people ever got raped. Sadly that isn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t the case. The only thing modern revealing clothing has done is desensitized us as to what parts of the human body are considered sexy. A woman?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s ankle has become just that?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ her ankle?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ big deal. Back a few hundred years *it* was a risque move on par flashing somebody.
My point, quite simply, is that rape happened back when women wore eight layers of dress fully covering their body as a norm, and sadly, rape still happens today. If somebody is screwed up enough to rape another than I have a hard time believing that clothing is such a huge factor. I know it gets blamed, but to me that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s the same as some kid shooting up a k-mart and blaming a video game. The video-game *isn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t* why the kid shot up the k-mart, it was just a quick and easy scapegoat that works.
?¢‚Ǩ?ìStraw Man (Fallacy Of Extension):
An extreme exaggeration of the point is a fallacious argument. STR is guilty of a good many, though, as I said, so are we all.”
I don’t agree it’s a straw man, even though it is an extreme representation of the logic. The point is the logic is fallacious. If I say that homosexuality or satanic metal or whatever is a bad thing in society and you defend it by saying that it is fashionable, then you are not rebutting my claim. In order to rebut the claim you would need to explain why those things are not bad for society.
So how would you say that a culture of wall-to-wall porn and dressing like a whore is good for society?
We?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re all guilty of it but;
?¢‚Ǩ?ìStraw Man (Fallacy Of Extension):
attacking an exaggerated or caricatured version of your opponent?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s position.
For example, the claim that ?¢‚Ǩ?ìevolution means a dog giving birth to a cat.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
Another example: ?¢‚Ǩ?ìSenator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
On the Internet, it is common to exaggerate the opponent?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s position so that a comparison can be made between the opponent and Hitler.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
An extreme exaggeration of the point is a fallacious argument. STR is guilty of a good many, though, as I said, so are we all.
-Wraith
Sorry there’s a long cut and paste in there (from “emo loser” down to “Straw Man”) that I should have cut. And then again from “We’re all guilty of it” to the end. You can skip those bits… The post should end at “good for society”
In a decent Christian country such as Guatemala, Singapore or Turkey, a woman looking that way would be slapped in jail double quick and no arguing. Quite right too.
“No, that was because he was an godless, emo loser.”
-Heh, naw, you don’t quite grasp emo-ism apparently… Emo is generally self-hatred, not hatred of others… and I said I *dress* emo, not I *am* emo (though I’ve been called it)…
Really confused about the end to your comment there… break it up in the future, or double quote or something…
I have a decent sense of humour, unfortunately, as we’re typing, inflection is lost. Therefore what was a joke when typed can sound like an attempt at insult… and no, I’m not insulted or worried about it, just clarifying.
When it comes down to it, like it or not, revealing is fashionable and if it concerns you so greatly because it would be unacceptable in other countries perhaps your best bet is to move to one of those countries? I don’t mean that in a biting way, I’m saying that I don’t see it as changing any time soon…
“So how would you say that a culture of wall-to-wall porn and dressing like a whore is good for society?”
-Okay, you have to admit that *that* is blatantly a straw man argument… How is ours a society of wall to wall porn? How do I suggest it’s good for society? I don’t. I suggest that how people dress is a moot point. Though, if you want a rebuttal for the good of society, how about freedom? Freedom to choose what I want to wear. Freedom for these women to choose what *they* want to wear. Isn’t that what our culture claims to be all about? Rights and Freedoms?
These women are dressed in a manner that is fashionable today, that doesn’t mean they’re asking for sex. How is this a good fashion? That can’t be argued, as fashion is matter of personal taste versus social taste. What’s fashionable today likely won’t be tomorrow. I think to say that ‘they’re asking for it’ (sexual assault) is demeaning to men… Saying that man is *so* out of control that the very slightest *hint* towards anything sexual will set him off.
I think it can be broken down into reasonable limits for the average person. The average person knows that it’s not a sexual invitation, and the average person wouldn’t see it as an excuse to perform an act of sexual assault. That being said one can assume that such an act as rape based on clothing is beyond reasonable behaviour, and if that’s the case it is not the fault of the woman, but the fault of her assailant (and, arguing nature/nurture and genetics, legally speaking, one could argue it’s also not the assailant’s fault either).
If it was a ridiculously common event then the government would likely have stepped in and regulated… and, after typing all that, I find myself wondering about rape in nudist colonies, or on nude beaches. If dressing revealingly is enough to drive a man over the edge what about being in the midst of a collection of naked people? I may have to look that one up.
-Wraith
Wraith
“Okay, you have to admit that *that* is blatantly a straw man argument?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ How is ours a society of wall to wall porn? How do I suggest it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s good for society? I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t. I suggest that how people dress is a moot point. Though, if you want a rebuttal for the good of society, how about freedom? Freedom to choose what I want to wear. Freedom for these women to choose what *they* want to wear. Isn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t that what our culture claims to be all about? Rights and Freedoms?”
No, my point was that if I assert that slutty dressing is a bad thing, the way to counter that is to argue that it is good, or at least acceptable, not to excuse it as ‘fashionable’. I didn’t say you have already argued that, in fact you clearly haven’t made any arguments that sluuty dressing is decent, which I take to mean you know deep down that I am right.
Rights and freedoms, yes. And responsibilities too. What do we have now? The flood of sexual ‘freedom’ and ‘expression’, including the indecency committed by the advertising, film and porn industries are not responsible uses of freedom. They are degeneracies that weaken our society.
Wraith,
Freedom is not an all-justifying answer as SerenaG expertly points out. Would you also defend my freedom to kill anyone who crosses me, my freedom to run around naked at town plaza, or my freedom to plant a landmine in front of your doorstep? My freedom goes only so far as it does not harm the society, and our society deems indecency, such as displayed by these detestable … whores (I’m sorry—but in deference to good women like Shelley and other many decent women in this country, calling the … things appearing in this image anything like “women” or “ladies” or even “girls” would have been an insult, and I do not like to insult people. It’s impolite.), harmful.
That’s why FCC regulates public brodcasts and such for this type of indecency displayed. That’s why local goverments pass decency laws so that anyone walking around naked will receive a flogging on her arse.
You may ask how indecency hurts society. Well, if you are looking for what could happen in the worst case scenario, you have no farther to look (nor speculate about)—just look at Sodom and Gomorrah! It was not just homosexuals who doomed these cities. Homosexuals and indecent people brought God’s wrath on these cities. If that isn’t hurtng society, what is?
Good to see some godfearing comments on this thread.
Perhaps it is now time for the government to pass a law on this matter. It seems to me reasonable to suggest that women should be expected to cover up their arms and legs when in public, in a decent manner. It might also be wise for them to tie back and cover their hair.
If indecent dressing were treated as the crime it undoubtedly is, society would be a far, far better place.
Richard, you just read my mind!
I wish to talk more, but I need to get ready for church.
Following on from Richard and StrongMan’s excellent suggestion, can I suggest some nomenclature for this legislation:
The law itself could be called the Public Order Bill (abbreviated to PORDER), while it could be enforced by a special comittee, the Institute for Sexual Law and Morality (ISLAM).
That should do it…
Thalia,
While I am sure your support will be well-regarded and valued by your representative, I think coming up with good, representative acronym is best left to the pros. I mean, sure, I could suggest something like:
“Federal Regulations for Ethics and Etiquettes”, but I am pretty sure people who came up with the excellent name, “Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act” can do much better than I, or anyone else can.
StrongMan,
You are right of course. I should leave it to the experts who really know what they are doing.
“which I take to mean you know deep down that I am right.”
-Suppose you take it wrong then.. I disagree with you entirely.
“What do we have now? The flood of sexual ?¢‚ǨÀúfreedom?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ and ?¢‚ǨÀúexpression?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢, including the indecency committed by the advertising, film and porn industries are not responsible uses of freedom.”
-What’s your point… it’s still not reasonable for a man to commit rape based on how the woman is dressed. Law works based on what is, and what is not, reasonable…
You said it yourself ‘responsibilities’, there are only three people responsible for my actions; me, myself and I. To say that a man is justified, in whole or in part, for raping a woman because she’s dressed revealingly is like saying a man is justified, in whole or in part, for murder because there was a rifle in the room. We’re all responsible for our own actions, and rape is in no way justifiable, in whole or in part. The reasonable person knows this, and that’s what society is formed around.
Your complaint seems to be that you don’t like where fashion is headed because you see it as immoral. Unfortunately it seems not everybody agrees, and majority rules.
“Would you also defend my freedom to kill anyone who crosses me, my freedom to run around naked at town plaza, or my freedom to plant a landmine in front of your doorstep?”
-Those aren’t rights or freedoms… Look to your own constitution, as I’m looking to mine. All rights and freedoms are regulated through reasonable limits. It is not reasonable to kill those that cross you, it is not reasonable to plant illegal landmines…
“My freedom goes only so far as it does not harm the society”
-And the way you dress causes no social harm.
“That?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s why FCC regulates public brodcasts and such for this type of indecency displayed. That?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s why local goverments pass decency laws so that anyone walking around naked will receive a flogging on her arse.”
-Then you’d think, if it was such a big deal, laws would be passed about dressing in a revealing fashion wouldn’t you? Once again, welcome to majority rule.
“You may ask how indecency hurts society. Well, if you are looking for what could happen in the worst case scenario, you have no farther to look (nor speculate about)?¢‚Ǩ‚Äùjust look at Sodom and Gomorrah!”
-Prove to me, without quoting the bible, that Sodom and Gomorrah actually existed, and that they were actually smote by a deity. Give me another society that has been harmed greatly by tanktops and miniskirts. I can name a place where such things don’t exist and yet I know you’ll disagree with their culture: The Middle East. Besides which, it’s not about the *worst* case scenario, it’s about the average, REASONABLE, scenario… Here’s a worst case scenario for you; the item you picked up explodes, and you’re covered you in a poisonous liquid from it… Sounds evil? Maybe we should outlaw pens then.
“If indecent dressing were treated as the crime it undoubtedly is, society would be a far, far better place.”
-Just look at the Middle East…
Think about what a REASONABLE person would do,
-Wraith
you are all seeming to want to argue your points of perspective among yourselves instead of really addressing the issue presented. try not to be sooooo personal? women and men dress as they do, and no-one invites a violation of their personal space. i have seen many men out in the “scene” dressed for women, and many women, too. as a people, we are not asking to have sex with the other sex un-asked, only trying to look good. and, yes, un-asked is the key….if someone does not want you to advance, what right have you to proceed? no other arguements matter after that, NONE.
Exactly what I was originally saying Rosalie. It’s not an invitation, it’s how they’re dressed.
-Wraith
Wraith
“Prove to me, without quoting the bible, that Sodom and Gomorrah actually existed, and that they were actually smote by a deity. Give me another society that has been harmed greatly by tanktops and miniskirts. ”
OK, I’ll overlook the fact that you are blasphemously doubting the word of God. Also let’s for a moment set aside the rape issue. Of course it is not right to rape someone, regardless of how they are dressed.
What I would look at instead is how all this slutty dressing affects society. What women are basically doing by dressing this way is prickteasing, inviting men to be aroused, then frustrating them. As a result, men develop a twisted view of women, they feel it is acceptable to wolf-whistle and leer at all women, they never learn to respect a woman in the way she deserves. In addition, our society is flooded by porn which teaches them that unnatural and disgusting practises are the norm. They then feel let down by a normal women who doesn’t act like a porn star.
The women also lose self-respect as they come to see being leered at as the only validation of their existence. They put all their money aside to save up for plastic surgery so they can try to resemble the sluts and porn stars of Hollywood.
Respect on both sides is being eroded and destroyed.
According to 1 Timothy 2:9, women are not only supposed to avoid wearing anything remotely revealing,they’re not to wear jewelry, expensive clothes or braid their hair! That would mean many Republican and Christian Right women are breaking the rules!
Absolutely right Abbie, many so-called Repuplicans and Christian are entirely degenerate by the rules of the bible. I know a fair few who turn up for fundamentalist meetings in outfits more suitable for a whore.
Some so-called Republicans even become alcoholics and allow their children to go out dressed as sluts. No good will come of it.
Wow, I see this article sparked some interesting debates here. I’ll try to bring my point across in some reasonable order.
1. I’m atheist. That doesn’t mean I hate God and it doesn’t mean I hate Christians. Many of my firends are Christians. I simply don’t believe in God unless somebody can prove to me that God really exists. And, no, a several thousand years old book that was written by someone as fallible as a human being is NOT proof to me.
2. If I was living in the US, I’d neither vote Demo nor Rep, I would try to make people notice that their is MORE than black and white. Even in US politics.
3. I believe that our society is going through a process of moral decay, but the answer cannot lie solely in religion. I’m atheist, I’m 19, but I don’t dress like a slut. Why? BEcause my parents (atheists, too) taught me better than that. Education starts with the parents – that’s where we have to start. (BTW, I am convinced that homosexual or single parents can be just as good as the stereotype mother and father, as long as they share a set of good morals)
Now that you know where my ideas come from, I will talk about the article.
1. Raped women are not simply “a bit annoyed”, they are hurt and ruined for life. It’s the most terrible thing you can do to a woman. Death may be painful, but rape is painful AND humiliating. How do you want to truly love a child that every time you look at it reminds you of the worst moments of your life? What’s inside a woman’s body is inside a woman’S body and she’s the ONLY one who has the right to decide.
2. Rape is not as terrible as abortion? See point 1. I would prefer death to rape.
3. As soon as a woman says “NO, STOP!” it’s rape and the bastard deserves to go to jail. Of course, dressing in a revealing manner and flirting like mad can encourage a man to go for a woman, but that’S no excuse not keep your loins in check. If you think you are smarter and more civilised than woman, then for the mercy of your God act in a corresponding manner and use that oh-so-smart brain of yours to keep yourself from acting like a stud in heat.
God or Lucifer or whoever bless all those equipped with brains!
Sen
JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZUS.
Do you suppose that SEN, WRAITH, THE DUDE, AND RAGING AUSSIE all get a hard on every time they see a 4 year old with a “camel toe”?
@Serena G, I was being sarcastic! What does wearing an expensive dress,pearls,gold jewelry,or hair in braids have to do with “dressing like a whore”? Geez! You must be one of those fundamentalist kooks that dresses like my great-grandmother! Not everyone in the 21st Century is going to dress like the Amish! Get over it!
@Journey to Truth: Man, you must have issues, if that is the first thing that comes to your mind. As a matter of fact, I didn’t even know the expression “camel toe” up to now – I had to google it. Besides, lusting after children is simply SICK. Nothing in the world can change that. Oh, and I can’t get hard on anything – I’m a woman ;-)
@Sen – Nicely done, Sen, nicely done.
@Journey to Truth: Guy, I don’t know about you, but I have the kahooneys to go for someone my own age. Actually, she’s older than me. And she’s beautiful.
Fuck you.
“Your comment is awaiting moderation”
Does anyone else get these? I don’t see how changing what I say says anything positive about STR at all.
Just in case it does get changed, I’ll repost it here too:
@Sen – Nicely done, Sen, nicely done.
@Journey to Truth: Guy, I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t know about you, but I have the kahooneys to go for someone my own age. Actually, she?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s older than me. And she?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s beautiful.
F*ck you.
So I’ll change the profanity, for all you aural virgins out there.
“get fucked shelley, or raped, whichever you prefer” comes from the heart.
?¢‚Ǩ?ìSo you think something being fashionable makes it decent and acceptable??¢‚Ǩ¬ù
Sometimes changes and revolution are fashion.
Memic evolution.
Today’s lesson:
Some republican jewelry whores are making a invitation for rape.
Journey, dude, what the fuck? Where did that come from and just what the hell are you implying?
Oh, sorry I fell off the face of the Earth on this debate… was busy with work and didn’t really feel like repeating myself for the eighteenth time on this article. Anywho, I agree Sen, it’s the parents’ duty to teach this stuff, and, as I said earlier, it’s degrading to men to say that they’re so hyper sexual that seeing a woman dressed like a slut is enough for them to feel justified in rape. It may strike a man’s fancy, and it might encourage him to start up a conversation or try for a date, and that’s okay, *but* it isn’t an invitation for unwanted sex and most, if not all, people are aware of that.
Everything in reason.
To justify anything with the bible fails when it’s brought to society’s level because not all of society agrees with the bible, and besides which, as Abbie pointed out (much more delicately), often people screaming for society to follow the Bible break many of it’s rules. There are many rules in the Bible that people like to ignore or forget about because they’re inconvenient but those same people will demand blood because other rules of the bible were broken…
-Wraith
“Journey to Truth | December 7, 2007 at 8:02 am | Permalink
JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZUS.
Do you suppose that SEN, WRAITH, THE DUDE, AND RAGING AUSSIE all get a hard on every time they see a 4 year old with a ?¢‚Ǩ?ìcamel toe?¢‚Ǩ¬ù?”
WTF. You know, in order to accuse they say that you have to have been guilty as well. I’m gathering that you have a deal with the DA? I love your real Lynn-like way of throwing personal attacks and completely ignoring the meaning of the whole article.
“RAGING AUSSIE”
-Oh, and it’s Random Aussie. *Random* not raging.
-Wraith
who the fuck are you to say that a woman deserves to be raped because of the clothes she wears? Did you think, maybe, she is wearing short clothes for *VANITY* and not because she wants somebody to have sex with her? A little 10 year old who dresses like her older sister, does she deserve to be raped because her she looks up to her sister, who wears short clothes? and if you say yes we will now know you are all pro-paedo, you all sicken me.
Lots of Love, madeintheUK…x
Also, I completely agree with Wraith, That Dude, Random Aussie and all those whoa actually *challenge* the wrong stupid inbred mississpi familyfucking bastards up in STR!!!
xxxx
Have you ever seen the pictures of women dressed in niqabs and burkahs? Have you ever listened to Osama Bin Laden’s speeches about the “Godless West”? Have you ever heard Al Quida talk about making the whole world Islamic, and banning everything nasty and dirty and filthy?
Have you?
You’re exactly the same. An extremist is an extremist, no matter what he claims to believe.
Sincerely,
Anne
The Netherlands
Also, if the Bible teaches us Thou shalt not kill… Then why is one of STR’s friends called “Liberals Must Die”? Oh, and one called “Nuke Iran”, too, I see. You realise that by nuking Iran you would kill people, and wait a sec – wasn’t that what we’re not supposed to do, according to the Bible?
I bet you’re in favour of the death penalty too, you dirty, Puritane hypocrites.
Sincerely,
Anne
The Netherlands
Just because a person wears certain clothes does not mean they must submit to whatever perception others may find and choose to act on.
This is the dumbest of your arguments.
Oh, and why aren’t the men who did this considered sluts and thrown in jail for life for this? You cannot ask the question of how many people a woman has been with when isolating and trying to determine one incident of rape. If it was rape, there is evidence of it…
What if a young man was wearing only shorts and an older neighbor decides since he smiled at him across the fence, the young man wants to be raped. He asked for it, right??
This question of crying wolf and potential slut have nothing to do with the crime of rape.
Why don’t you use a reasonable counter argument when debating with these so called “atheist sicko[s]“?
Congressman and Doctor Ron Paul has a great, reasonable argument for pro-life:
If a baby can be hurt in the womb and another person be tried for the murder of the child, why is abortion also not murder? What ESPECIALLY is wrong is gov’t funded abortions.
This argument would make you sound smart, opposed to your idiot rantings above.
And just because someone doesn’t believe in what you believe in doesn’t make them a sicko. I urge you to go to a good college, study history, economics, and government, and then re-evaluate the Bible. You will have a less foggy perception then.
How the hell can you say a woman deserves to be raped because of they dress? Rape is the enforcing of one’s free-will upon another, which in any circumstances is a discrasefl thing to do, no-one should be forced to do anything, let alone be raped, not even if they were walking along the street naked, that still doesn’t give any justification for one of the evilest acts man can commit. And also, lets say that abortion was made illegal. One, how would a mother explain to her child where the father was “sorry, your father’s a scumbag who’s in jail because he raped me, and as a result I became pregnant with you.” That’s not fair on either party, the mother or the child, imagine getting told that, how would you feel knowing that you were concieved in those circumstances. Also, if abortion was illegal, do you really believe this would stop them occuring? It would just force women to seek to have the child terminated in even more brutal ways, or if it couldn’t be terminated it’s not unheard of for mothers to just abondon there chil if they can;t care for it, so really, abortion is the lesser of two evils, while not a morally clear issue, I believe it would be even worse to allow a child to come into the world unwanted.
It’s the topic that just won’t die… so here I am to once again whack it with a two by four!
“Also, if abortion was illegal, do you really believe this would stop them occuring?”
-I’m not so sure about abortion, however I don’t really disagree… I mean think about it; Piracy is illegal… it still happens (en masse), as does drug use. Illegality only stops those who believe in the law.
I’m once again making the promise that I’m back… don’t fail my STR, give me reason to keep picking up the ol’ verbal two by four.
-Wraith
“…keep picking up the ol’ verbal two by four.”
I think that if you add Proud German, Link, myself and the rest of the STR demolition crew, it’s not so much a 2X4 but more a battering ram.
and throw in a couple of catapaults for good measure
Sam Johnston,
I want to tell your an asshole and a son of a bitch!!No woman deserves to be raped or punished by the side effects of rape!!!!!!Asshole
FUCK THE DAMN RAPTURE
well clearly YOU havent been raped.
So… you want to say that a girl who´s been raped was asking for it? I have a little story that someone like you should find inspiring then. I had a friend who was raped when she was 13 by a trusted family friend. I suppose she was asking for it. When she found out she was pregnant she and her parents went to a doctor who advised her to have an abortion because not only would bearing the child be emotionally damaging but might, in fact, kill her. Her parents, good little soldiers of your god, refused to let her get an abortion and she had the baby. She´s not dead, barely, but she´ll never, ever be able to have kids because it damaged her body so much. They actually had to sew her back together because it ripped her vagina apart. Apart from that, she won´t emotionally recover from it probably for her entire life.
I have also been raped, though not as traumatically. I know plenty of girls- friends- who have been raped or molested. We sure were asking for it. Yup, that´s just what we wanted.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
I too was raped ar a 6 year old…. i gess i was asking for it?!?!
sick fucks!
you are such a cunt
how about you go get raped and then we’ll see how much you “asked for it”
fuck you,
steve f.
Steve
Just shut up. Sam is right, rape is a myth. These dirty sluts wear clothes like that because they want it.
Shelley
Amy
You were one of them lolita types, probably.. who knows.
Shelley
Well Shelley? Why don’t you try it then? Go see if it’s a myth and then come back and tell us your results (although you’d likely lie in any case.)
Sorry, but I never dress like a slut.
Shelley
Then shut your ass up before you go talking. The only way someone as bitchy as you could get laid would be to get raped. Your standards are so low, you try to justify rapists, but you hate Bill Clinton because he boinked a girl for the same reason, amazing how that double standard works.
so, i just stumbled upon this website and there’s a few things i’d like to say.
First off, being a woman, it was absolutely appalling to hear people basically condone rape. That’s down right disgusting. It’s that simple. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY should be put thru such a horrible traumatic event. Woman aren’t the only ones who suffer from it. Young boys don’t dress in skanky clothing, but yet, they get raped everyday. A person who believes it’s okay to force any type of sexual act on someone, is not only a DISGRACE TO THE HUMAN SPECIES, but they do not care what you’re wearing or how you act. All they want is the control.
Secondly, saying that someone “asked for it”, is indescribably horrific. A friend of mine was raped multiple times by her own grandfather. Now, do you think an 8 year old had sex on her mind? DOUBTFUL, you pricks. Now, do you think even if she wanted sex for some strange reason in 2nd grade, do you think she wanted it from her grandfather?? DOUBTFUL, you pricks. She is almost nineteen now, like myself. That’s almost ELEVEN YEARS LATER, and she is STILL traumatized from this. It makes it hard for her to trust people, trust her self, and you can COMPLETELY rule out her sex life. It’s too scary for her at times. She gets involved with asshole guys her treat her like an object, because at 8 YEARS old, she was an object to a disgusting excuse for a man. Much like the people who condone such a thing.
Thirdly, say her grandfather impregnated her, if she were a couple years older, should she be forced to keep the incest baby? I for one think not. Especially with all the risks such a baby could have.
Also, I hate to say it, but there are thousands, probably millions of unwanted children in this world. Most probably wish they were dead because their circumstances are so bad. And if a mother were to have a baby from a bastard that forced himself upon her, should she explain why daddy isn’t in their lives? Or now should we force that woman and child to have that inhumane person to be in their lives? I mean, if he can force sex and reproduction upon her, can he now force a relationship with that woman and child? And if so, can he beat them too? Or rape his daughter? Can he murder them if he feels like it? I THINK NOT.
Honestly, I can’t even believe this is a discussion. It should be obvious that its not right. For anyone, in any situation.
If there is a hell, which NOBODY CAN PROVE, anyone who condones such things will go there. And if there was a God, which NOBODY CAN PROVE, I’m sure that he would want us to be kind, respectful, caring, and generous. He would want us to conserve the Earth because it’s our home. He would want us to be happy. And I HIGHLY DOUBT he would want us to rape or cause any pain towards one another.
I DARE ANYONE TO DISAGREE.
Even you bible-followers. Use the brain “God” gave you. What would Jesus do? That’s what you say. right? Would Jesus brutally rape someone because their legs are showing?
All of you are sick!!! Jesus doesn´t even exists! Everybody have the right to dress wherever they like.
YOUR ATTITUDE IS STUPID, YOU BASICALLY DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. YOU ARE SAYING THAT AFTER ALL, WOMEN THEMSELVES ARE SOMEHOW WANTING THEM RAPED, JUST BECAUSE THE WAY THEY ‘ACT’ OR THEY ‘DRESS’
WHAT DO YOU WEAR WHEN YOU GO OUT A MONK SUIT?
SO THE NEXT TIME I SEE YOU WEARING SHORTS WHICH LET THE OTHERS SEE YOUR LEGS I WOULD RAPE YOUR ASS JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE ASKING FOR IT.
OF COURSE ITS SHAME, BUT ON YOU, AND I THINK THAT MOST OF PEOPLE HERE AGREE WITH THIS POINT OF VIEW RATHER THAN WITH YOURS.
SINCERELY SHUT THE F*CK UP IF YOU ARE GOING TO TALK THIS CR*P
This is the most disgusting uneducated piece of crap I have ever read in my life! Classic victim blaming and something that has been widely written on. (You would know that if you bothered to read anything but your church pamphlet). You think that because some women dress a certain way, that justifies raping them. What you are really saying is that women do not have the same right to be in this culture as men. You want women to dress modestly out of fear of “encouraging” rape. (The academic term for that is sexual terrorism). When you say that they are asking for it, you are basically saying that if they don’t behave, men have a right to punish them. You first reprimand the woman for stepping out of her place before you ever condemn the guy who is doing the raping. You look at what the women supposedly did wrong before you would ever demonize the rapist. That you would actually be stupid enough to say that rape is not that big of a deal is amazing. Would you really be saying that if someone gangraped your mother or sister?! Would you tell her to get over it? So what if they violated her, made her feel less than human? So what if she is terrified to leave her house? So what if she is depressed and suicidal? So what if she feels worthless? You clealy have never spoken to a rape victim or even tried to comprehend what they are going through! It is one of the most inhumane acts in the world and any resonable person or government recognizes it as a severe crime against humanity. (But I’m sure you are smarter than all them, right?) Say what you want about abortion but, unlike a fetus, a grown woman feels emotion! THAT is the worse part of rape; the psychological aftermath. (Something which you have obviously never bothered studying). You are a sorry excuse for a human being and you are NOT the Christian you think you are. You CANNOT truly follow God’s teachings while you feel such little compassion for the humans that are living on this Earth! (Ie: not a bunch of cells). Do you really think Jesus would say that women ask to be raped?! If you do, you know NOTHING about the religion you supposedly believe in. Great, you care about a fetus, but it all goes to shit because afterwards when these people actually out in the world, you clearly don’t give a crap about them. Christian my ass. Anyone who says rape is something women want is clearly disturbed and needs help. I feel sorry for you. Also assholes, sexual violence often occurs within the female’s home. In other words, it has nothing to do with what she is wearing. It is because she lives in the same house of someone who thinks it is ok to rape. Stupid, sexist ignorant fuckers. I’m assuming that you guys would never say that about a boy being raped. Do they ask for it too? Your argument is clearly deeply rooted in sexism. Comments like, “Well why was she out by herself?” or, “How could she trust him?” are often made without hesitation. Yet, if these degenerates would only stop to think I hope they would realize that that kind of attitude just creates a culturally safe space for perpetrators to act while chastising the victims and making it more difficult for them to seek help for fear of judgment and thus, actually continuing the cycle! Also, to anybody who agrees with this fucked up blog – I am assuming that you all allow your daughters to walk around in the middle of the night by herself then, right? After all, if a woman is not dressed slutty then she has nothing to worry about, right? She can go anywhere and do anything because no one would rape a female who was not asking for it. Thus, since your daughters are behaving properly, there’s no reason for her to have restrictions. No one would rape your daughter because she is not a slut. I’m sure you don’t even worry about her safety. Right?
As much as people may dislike abortion, abortion and infanticide have always been with us and occur all over the world. Making it legal or illegal will not stop fetal and neonate deaths, as it as has been shown, newly born remains have been found tossed into rivers, off bridges, in dumpsters, on sides of roads, etc. In order to help this issue, there are laws to allow people to legally abandon a baby up to a certain time, so to avoid the child being killed as a neonate if the mother could not afford or obtain abortion legally. However, our foster system is currently overwhelmed with 500,000+ unwanted BORN children. And the foster child list grows since unwanted children are added to it annually. Making abortion illegal is never the answer as unwanted children will still be killed or packed away in foster homes. We need to stop unwanted pregnancy. That is the ONLY way to stop abortions and infanticide. Abstinence programs help as it encourages kids to have anal sex instead of vaginal; a female cannot get pregnant through anal sex, thus no abortion to follow. And I have sadly learned from many years of personal experience that Christians are the worst when it comes to premarital sex. They are also the worst when it comes to denying their behavior. Every church I have been in, and even Christian leaders. I could not take the lies and hypocrisy anymore, so I had to leave the nonsense. If you really care about children, ADOPT ADOPT ADOPT! Take them into your home and hearts. Take as many as you can. If you really care about children, care about the born ones — as well as the unborn ones.
Additionally to the individual who wrote this wild article… You can bet that a guy who has a one-night stand with a girl he found in a bar wearing “skimpy outfit” would be thrilled if she were to get an abortion if he got her pregnant. There is no way the vast majority of guys would want to be tied down like that. You don’t know a lot of men out there, dude.